A Narcissist Goes to Court
The Queen’s Conundrum
Narcissists struggle in any situation in which they have to relate to a context and people beyond their typical approach of “Me, Myself, and I”.
When confronting a narcissist at the negotiating table, you must remember to look at it from his or her perspective. It is nice you prepared your paperwork, it’s nice you have your understanding of the situation. It’s nice you have showed up and have some comments to make. All of this is only “nice”, because to a narcissist, each of these things are completely irrelevant.
Negotiating with a narcissist is best summarized by the following image:
A narcissist sitting at a negotiating table with a mirror in front of him or her. That’s it. Narcissists completely forget that others are involved in the negotiation. They see themselves in the mirror, they see their own agreement with their “outstanding” cognitive abilities, they nod in agreement and can not understand what goes wrong. They do not even see you or any other person, entity, or process associated with the negotiations.
My husband’s ex-wife is so off the rails in narcissistic delusion, she actually sent him an e-mail recently directing him to speak with HIS attorney, because she (my husband’s ex-) was confused about what my husband’s attorney was doing and she wanted an explanation from his attorney.
I so wanted to phone her and say, “Uh…my husband’s attorney is actually representing him, not you, thus negating any need for his attorney to provide you with an explanation.”
To a narcissist not only are these types of requests “reasonable”, they are so “understandable” that she actually expects my husband to follow through. That’s right… my husband will now spend his hard-earned money on attorney fees to provide his ex-wife with an explanation.
His ex-wife has further tried to “control” things by now suggesting attorneys aren’t needed. Gee whiz, we really appreciate her insightful, “legal eagle” suggestions, but we actually hired legal counsel for a very, very specific reason… Because we knew his ex-wife is a narcissistic, manipulative person who lies.
So, I am wondering given that his ex-wife seems to now feel that she is at the negotiating table with such “openness” (albeit, also a fair amount of confusion) if we should be honest as to why we hired legal counsel and inform her that we are happy to stop with the legal counsel when she is willing stop being a narcissistic bitch. Now, that is a negotiation I would be interested in.
Of course, within all of this, it goes without saying, she seldom brings up the children. it’s all about her and her attorney fees. Me, Myself and I…..
When “working” or “negotiating” with narcissists always remember: narcissists see nothing beyond themselves-no courts, no legal process, no you, no nothing.
Sad but so true! So glad you see the forest for the trees the narcissist loves to fell in front of everyone.
Laughing at your comment- so true!
Amen sister. Amen.
Thanks for your support!
I’ve met a narcisist or two.
Narcissist desert
Me myself and I
Wanted a piece of pie
Me was hungry
My self wouldn’t share
I couldn’t see
we just didn’t care
Your writing on narcissism is interesting
Hang tough !
Laughing out loud at this- thank you for your humor and support!
Yeah,! Try having sex with one of these! same thing… I’m laughing too!, ….now.
Oh gosh! I now feel better about my own position… sexual relations with such individuals must be a nightmare!
Yep! Oh gosh is right… I’m safe now. And very grateful to be standing on this side with you, able to actually laugh about it! Healing ever so tenderly…
YOur comment of “standing on this side with you” almost made me cry. When you deal with a narcissist you can feel so lonely, because many people do not understand what they can do to others. thanks you.
perfect! that’s just the way they are! my n/s sib has ‘free’ legal counsel, she’s on state disability, and I can’t imagine what those poor lawyers must go though with her! Even private lawyers have the same reaction. Yep these types know what the legal system doesn’t know!
A great post! During my divorce my ex-narcissist ran up my legal fees by completely snowing my lawyer with emails – he was representing himself – I very quickly realized that unless I paid him off I would be nickled and dimed into bankruptcy. This was a hard realization to make and a hard financial hit to take but it worked. He took the money and ran, even agreeing to a fast divorce on the grounds of cruelty. With narcissists, money will always talk!
Good luck with this situation and hang on to your sense of humour!
Thanks so much for your support. As always, you try to do the “right” thing, but sometimes with narcissists you just have to draw the line and cut your losses.
So true. They have no principles, no compunction whatsoever about just taking what they can get.
Judges can see right through liars, I’ve seen it first hand. Liars never win, hang in there, she will make an ass of herself.
Thank you- you have no idea how much I needed to hear these words. I have been so worried we would be painted as the “bad guys”. thank you!
I never understood how someone could take an oath an lie straight to the judge.That’s my biggest problem with people,liars and acting like they are good, when deep down they are evil.His ex is clearly only thinking of herself.It sounds like she will lie under oath….that pisses me off and I don’t even know her.It’s commical but pathetic to watch someone make a fool of themselves.Stay strong and don’t stoop to her level.We didn’t lie and we won!!!
That is soooo inspiring!! I am not sure we even want to “win”. we would just like things to be fair. The underlying energy in all of this is that my husband’s ex- wants him to take care of her. That ended with the marriage, though.
My husband’s ex works as a legal assistant to an attorney and is constantly threatening us for something. Over the past ten years, she has made up countless stories from sexual molestation to my husband allowing my son (his now adopted son) to sit at baseball games of their children in his own urine.
She does use her kids, though. She uses them to manipulate my husband in to getting whatever she wants. The most recent manipulation was when my husband adopted my son. We used the law firm that she works at. We wanted to make sure that she knew about the adoption so we could prepare ourselves for anything that could happen during the process. She was actually ok with it. She wanted my husband to sign legal documentation that she could claim their eldest son on her income tax returns as a child support modification. This would grant her another $4800 a year.
The same attorney doing our adoption drew up the paperwork. My husband signed it and then was advised that his ex told the attorney that we would be paying for it. However, she advised that she would take care of it. We had just paid for the adoption fees and did not have the money to pay for this. The attorney said it was no problem and she would speak to his ex about it.
We finished with the adoption paperwork and left. Then come the most hateful, threatening texts you can imagine. She also mentioned “it’s a good thing this is MY FIRM because I will now screw you over”. She has always used her position to get what she wants with my husband. She tried to get him to go back and pay for the fees or she was going to take him to court and raise is child support and take the taxes.
This all happened on March 31, 2012. In August of 2012 we get paperwork from the State requesting all of his information for a child support modification. We did not fill it out, but sent a letter stating that my husband signed documentation for the modification of the income taxes. Then in November we get information from the State stating my husband’s child support will raise and he can request a hearing. So we did so.
Once we requested the hearing, we were sent EVERYTHING that his ex sent to the State. Her letters were NOTHING but COMPLETE LIES. She told them that my husband never visits his kids, that they have never stayed over night, that he has never taken them on a vacation, basically that he hasn’t seen them since they were divorces. Um….they had spent every weekend with us since July of that year; until we requested a hearing. Then, she stopped allowing my husband to even talk to his kids.
Before all of this, she always emailed me with the medical bills, telling me what the boys needed for extracurricular activities and what she paid for. I never asked for a receipt, I just paid her half. Since the letters, I told my husband that I will no longer have any contact with her. She emailed me at work on January 9th of this year. I simply responded; Per employee request, you are advised to hault all communication with this employee.
Now, I am to blame for her not allowing my husband to see his kids. She told my husband that I am trying to get him put in jail because I am not paying his child support, the medical bills, I had the nerve to tell her not to communicate with me, and that I am not allowed to come to the kids ballgames. (We actually have his child support taken out of his pay check so we don’t have to mess with it.) I have nothing to do with his child support.
I did go to a ballgame. I was with my husband, and she was not happy at all. She made a scene and had to get my attention because I was completely ignoring her. She whispered, “Straight trash B&*^%, you are not supposed to be here!” I smild and waived at her. She didn’t want me there because she has had their youngest son call my husband and tell him that he could sit by his Mom at his ballgames. Then she gets on the phone and says, “We used to be in love, so you could sit by me.”
Valentines Day she cried to my husband saying she is lonely because she divorced her second husband. Now she is trying to get him back. Even though she cheated on him the week after his daughter was killed in a car accident and used the excuse, “You weren’t paying enough attention to me!”
Ten years of craziness has been hard. I have tried over and over to just deal with it, but I can’t anymore. Mentally ill people do nothing but keep you on an emotional roller coaster and even though some can/do change with medication; I really don’t think that any amount of medication will help this woman.
I don’t know what to say. I really don’t. I have had a small portion of what you have dealt with and I know the emotional, mental, and spiritual that has taken on me. To have someone so insane in your life is completely destabilizing. You can not plan, anticipate, or focus because you never know what she may do next. It is so important to remember that such mentally ill people do not live in the same reality as you or I. They simply do not. So every skill, etc. that you have learned to operate in this world must almost be forgotten b/c a completely different skill set is needed when dealing with someone so out of control. I am truly so sorry that you must suffer this.
I so understand where you are. My two stepchildren are now living with us basically “full-time” because the ex married an abusive, alcoholic and then thought it was in the best interest of her children’s welfare to quit her full-time job. Now, it has become OUR responsibility when she doesn’t have enough money to pay her rent (but still manages to go on extravagant shopping sprees and trips)… and when my husband replied a resounding “NO” to a dinner-time text – “Would you consider moving (out of state) because I got a really great job offer there?” she couldn’t understand why we couldn’t just uproot two young children who had finally begun to establish some roots and a sense of stability and security. The job opportunities she is “seeking” are PLENTIFUL in this area…guess she doesn’t realize that, or maybe she’s been blacklisted. Never mind the fact that WE are attempting to grow our own roots as a couple… some days it’s all I can do to keep from running away, screaming at the top of my lungs.
Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone and not blowing this out of proportion… Only 8 more years to go (scratching head)…
Oh, I so know what it is to be counting down the years.
Most importantly, your stepchildren have you in their lives- someone with stability, focus, and the all important- caring for them in a context that is healthy! I just love the dinner-time text of the sudden, random move out of state. What gets me is that such individuals are so detached from reality, they do not understand how disconnected they are. It’s not the actual request- moving out of state is something that can potentially happen for a person- it is not o.k., though, to send this as a text and cause stress for the children, when the actual context is so unrealistic. I really appreciate your comment, because unless you have to relate to someone of this nature, people do not understand just how crazy-making it is. I know you will hang in there, and just from your comment I can tell you are very focused and aware- unfortunately, I can not say the same about the children’s mother. I hope some day our culture moves beyond the myth of “supermom” and realizes not all women are truly that invested in being mothers.